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tv   Charlie Rose  WHUT  January 1, 2010 9:00am-10:00am EST

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>> welcome to the broadcast tonight. tonight jules kroll once the worlds most famous sluth now the man going into the business of corporate ratings. >> we want to go to the person or various people who might know. we are also looking for people who have a reason to give information. they either have a beef with somebody, they're antagonistic. maybe they have had a dispute of someone being fired from a job, or maybe they have reached the level of suing somebody, or maybe somebody has written about them that is, you know, she will negative. looking for some basis or another where somebody would have an effect, a motivation,
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for sharing information with you. that's really the artform. >> and we conclude this evening with gore vidal. >> i had a friend i lived with for more than 50 years, and i never collect pictures or anything else about myself. anybody else but he did. suddenly i have this great stack, always in need of dusting. he said, i said what are you going to do with it it's just -- i use it for kindling, to light fires with. he said, well, it might be worth doing one day. >> gore vidal next. announcer: funding for charlie rose has been provided by the follow:
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captioning sponsored by rose communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. >> charlie: jules kroll is here, the chairman and founder of k2 global partners the next generation intelligence and security firm. for decades he has been regarded as the "private eye."
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in 1991 he was responsible for tracking down millions of dollars hidden by saddam hussein. a former colleague said of him as a optimist sees a glass as half full, the pessimist as half empty jules sees it it -- i'm pleased to have him here at this table. welcome. >> thank you, charlie. >> charlie: our interest was peaked by a piece by the new yorker magazine. a profile with a interesting photograph of you called "the secret keeper, jules kroll and the world of corporate intelligence." what would you now be doing in terms of this credit agency business. >> okay. well, for many years there have been numerous instruments, corporate instruments, products
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labed triple-a. we have learned triple-a doesn't mean triple-a. what i try do during my career is identify public policy problems susceptible to a private sector. so we're setting up a institutional investor owned rating system where we're doing things differently than the current credit rating agencies have been doing. for example we will conduct due dilligence as we have for years in the financial world. and we're going to do things in a way that looks under the hood and make sure we understand what is under the hood. >> charlie: what is your core excellence? >> we're basically fact finders. that's what the business has
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been about. as we go through each decade since the 70s is apply fact finding. the work is close to a investigative reporter. we do it with former journalists, lawyers, law enforcement people, intelligence people, and people who are just curious. that i would say is the corp competence of the group. >> charlie: you know how to access information that others can't get . to. >> more than access it's the analysis of the information. today with google and other search engines and world databases there is too much information. the question is how do do the proper analysis. >> charlie: you sold a company for 1 point something billion dollars? >> 12. $1.9 billion, yes.
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>> charlie: why did you do that? >> we were a public company when you run a public company your job is to maximize the value to people called shareholders. we got a very good price. it's what i'm in the job for. and we joined forces with a great partner with a great ceo named jeff greenberg. unfortunately 90s days later the then attorney general spitzer put the company out of business. from then on it was hp the company to survive. >> charlie: so, you decided you needed a new career and looked at what happened in credit rates and said i'm going to create a new company to investigate? >> well i was with kroll for five years after the sale. >> charlie: right. >> just in the last three months after studyinghis for quite awhile i felt the one aspect of
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the final crisis we phaoeupbt be able to do something about is establish a new credit reporting agency, a agency to give institutions such as endowments, corporate and public pension funds and others a true understanding of the likelihood of default which is rating is primarily about. what we did is i announced on october 1st that we would set up a first credit rating of it's kind owned by the investors and now don't know what they can trust because of the unfortunate credit rating debacle we have had. >> charlie: that's not up to speed yes? yet. >> that business will open at the end of q1 beginning of q2. >> charlie: so the history. what's the most interesting story to understand about corporate intelligence and the
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role the play? >> probably the best known story is the work we did involving the investigation of saddam hussein in 1991, 1992, 1990. >> charlie: yes. >> what was important was not the money he secreted outside of iraq, it was procurement network he set up based on the nazi system of world war ii where they required war material on a secret basis where they set up literally hundreds of companies pryer to world war i/world war ii. that was in most respects the most intriguing cases we ever had. >> charlie: intriguing because it involved him or other reasons? >> it was the stakes, the stakes
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involved were very high. there was a case by working on it we could help prevent some of the resources from being deployed. as we began to uncover more and more it had a domino effect. as a result we were feeding all of that information right back intohe working group consisting of the intelligent agencies that didn't really know much at the time. did not know much about what he had going on. we felt -- >> charlie: the.s. intelligent agencies. >> u.s. and others. charlie: french and british? >> yes, there was varying degrees of knowledge. there was not much cooperation between them which is not unusual, although things have improved since 9-11. the most frustrating case was when we were hired by the new government in russia to investigate what happened with the kgb money. that was, that was one of the
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most disappointing cases of my career because we never found so much money so quickly, but the infoation we turned over to the new government was used to blackmail members of the old government. so, we felt pretty used on that on >> charlie: now how did that client come to you? >> well, i got a call from a partner from a law firm here in town. >> charlie: yes. >> a very much of a inter national law firm. they were representing the central bank of russia renegotiating their debt. onone of the issues was missing assets. >> charlie: the federal reserve so to speak. >> correct. this was back in march of '92 in madrid. met with the then deputy prime minister. >> charlie: right. >> a great reformer, thinker, economist. it was a incredibly frustrating
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case. >> charlie: what did he say to you, find the money. >> he said we need to do something about this incredible leakage. we're really hurting for funds. we need to find where the money has gone, we need to seem to be reforming the system. he was a completely honorable guy. >> charlie: yes, later ran for higher office. >> yes. it was the people below him. they couldn't get much done. they were dependent on the former kgb people. >> charlie: walk me through this. you're given this assignment from t central bank of russia to find money leaking from the kgb. >> the first thing we typically do is take the easy path. we like to see what is out there >> charlie: in the public space. >> -- in the public space. open research. the send thing we did here is we wanted people to know we had been hired. if they had information sources
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would come forward. it was the same thing we did when pakistan hired us to look into buto and her husband, the current president of the country. >> charlie: with alligations of fraud. >> he was put in gail originally because of the work we had done finding payoffs by swiss and other companies. so in some cases you want it known you're doing the work. this happened with the russian case. here is where we ran into the problem. we had to have a working group to operate within russia. we did fine outside. we resulted to a series of people, all former kgb people. i showed up with my team a former secret service fellow. another man who worked for the israeli fbi and secret service,
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a former senior fbi official and former cia official. >> this is the team you assembled for this project. >> they were already full time members of my staff. some in lonn, some in the united states. we used our proper names, told our back grounds. the people we met with, counter parties on the russian side used phony names. one was stations in seattle, silicon valley, one in washington. so, the game that got played is to thwart anything we would do. this is the group we had to work with. there we are looking in the open source trying to gain the cooperation from these other people, where we got absolutely nowhere. they played with us. but what did work is a lot of
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people came forward with information. some accurate, some inaccurate. so you have to parse through it. >> charlie: what was the most interesting information that came forward? >> the single most intriguing were a series of commodity related businesses that traded off getting commodities out of russia. things like a moa pneumonia, fertilizer. these were basic money laundering operations for them. they operated all over the world. when these things happen some of it always sticks to of the people responsible for distributing it. it doesn't all go to the place intended. so what happened is as the soviet union began to fall apart it was every man for themself and people began to steal it we
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had the usual information coming from disgruntled partners, coming from former colleagues. that was very, very fruitful. >> charlie: what intrigues us all is the people you have represented and how you get information. the cia has a website. a lot of the data is generated. there how do you go after stuff not there. >> as logic would indicate we try to identify if something was known at a particular time who would of known it. basic common sense. then comes the more tricky part. at that point it's how do you elicit the information as to what is going on. the easiest way is to find a trusted, you know, a trusted individual who somebody would talk to. we all have a tendency to want to tell somebody else what is going on. by the way typically i find that
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women are better at this then men. >> charlie: better at? >> better at developing information because people are more likely to trust them. at lst with secrets or things that they think -- i don't mean to be deceptive. i think women are much more capable of being empathetic, truly empathetic. and people feel less, less threatened by women typically. also it helps when the people doing the interviewing are not lawyers. people don't trust lawyers. they don't particularly want to, want to expose themselves. because they, lawyers make them nervous. we're looking for people with highy notion al intelligence, so to speak. >> charlie: define that for me. >> somebody who relates to
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somebody else. somebody pays attention to how does a person look at them. are they an arms-open person welcoming you or an arms-closed person. the body language we're conscience of or not as conscience of. so we want to go to the person or various people who might know. we're also looking for people who have a reason to give information. they either have a beef with somebody. they're antagonistic. maybe they have had a dispute that's reached a level of someone being fired from a job, or maybe reached the point of having sued somebody, or maybe somebody has written about them that's very negative. looking for some basis or another where somebody would have in effect a motivation for
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sharing information with you. that's really the artform. first finding it, then developing the idea, and getting somebody to open up. not always successful. >> charlie: and you need a good listener. >> and you need a good listener. just as importantly you need to have people who are good at looking, at looking. we have always told our people give the -- one of the secret weapons is to be quiet. listen to what somebody has to say. give them a chance to, to speak. always pay a lot of attention to what is said in the first minute of a conversation, and the last minute of a conversation. because typically what is on people mind either comes out at the very beginning or comes out that the very end.
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whether it's my children or people who work for me, or we work with, ask them to pay attention to that. >> charlie: you have developed a reputation for looking for money. you did marcos millions didn't you? >> that was the first case. former congressman steve solar called me. he had information from filipino. it was the first case we had looking at former heads of state. steve was an active critic of marcos for many years, the only one. ultimately it turned out he wanted to investigate. he had all ofthis information. he had never done a investigation would i help him. >> charlie: this was a step committee investigation. >> yes he and lee hamilton were viewed as the most informed people in the house. we did the investigation.
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the local agents of the marcos showed up. it turned out they were represented by stewart ise isenstaff. it was a interesting twist of faith. they were not very cooperative. steve threatened them with a contempt of congress. all of a sudden their lawyers changed d we were dealing with edward bennett williams. >> charlie: you don't go any hire than edward bennett williams. >> he was a fabulous lawyer and great guy. we covered 300 million in u.s. property holdings. the only money returned to the philippines for ten years. >> charlie: they had houses in new york too. >> apartment houses, a building on wallstreet. this is when 300 million was serious money. >> charlie: you did others?
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>> yes. charlie, what devalle would do is go to the checkbook of the hatian treasury and write: trump towers apartment, $3 million. >> charlie: take 3 million? >> take $3 million in a check. that's the easier case we had looking at a former head of state. the tragedy there was there were three changes of government. even though all the money had been frozen i don't think any money made it back to one of the poorest countries on the planet. >> charlie: there is the bank of robert calpry, god's banker the pwaeufrpber of the vatican. died a tragic death. >> yes. >> charlie: what happened to him. >> he was murdered. >> charlie: in prison. >> no. >> charlie: upb hung off a brid.
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>> found hanging off black fryers bridge. godfather 2 was loosely based on what happened during that time. he was very involved with very bad people like the italian mafia. he had stolen from the bank and, and his family, his family came to us ten years later. this is ten years after it was ruled a suicide by the metropolitan police. they hired us to determine and prove whether it was a murder or not ten years later. we were able to through a variety of means, equipment not available at the time determine he had been killed elsewhere, that he was dead before he was -- >> charlie: how did you determine he was killed elsewhere? i think well, one of the things
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that happened. this was almost comical. he had a bag of rocks. he had a bag -- rocks in the bag tied to his legs, and what happened was the bag of rocks was from ten miles or 15 miles uupstream. it had nothing to do with the rocks in that area. >> charlie: right. >> in addition the tides were such. >> charlie: -- brought the rocks down. >> yes. years later we could determine the degree of moisture in his shoes that didn't fit with the tides at the time. there was a series of things. the case was reopened reluctantly by the metropolitan police. it was reopened. the killers were eventually found. they were arrested in italy. they spent many years in jail,
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and ironically earlier this year they were all acquitted. they had beenin jail probably at this point 10-15 years. >> charlie: how much corporate intelligence by that an effort to find information that is not publicly available is going on all the time? >> you have a spectrum. on one end of the spectrum you have open research and open sources. today with the internet there is a lot more out there. that's completely legitimate. all the way to the other end of the spectrum which is illegal. we are getting information that you're absolutely not entitled to and you are paying people for it in a what that is illegal. >> charlie: people tell me in the law enforcement business, military business, and in war, even the iraqi war. when they were looking for counter terrorists, counter
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insurgence the thing they needed most was somebody from the neighborhood to talk. >> i think the sources, the human intelligence factor that we lost in this country in the 70s, 80s and 90s. when these groups were over run with lawyers. >> charlie: right. >> -- because of the excesses of the past it hobbled us as a country. what you see now in places like new york ray kelly and david cohen building up a tremendous capability. we have to be careful because of civil liberties implications. we have to keep a balance. they're developing sources in these countries. there is no substitute. you can tell that story of any place in the world. look how little we knew about iran and the economy in russia.
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how little we knew about what was going on in -- in, in these other places. we just didn't have the human intelligence to do it. sources are the key, sources are the key. >> charlie: the name of this new company the credit rating investigation is under written by a series of investors is called? >> the holding company is k2 global partners. the credit rating business will be kroll bon credit rating. >> charlie: the other businesses you will continue to do and engage in what we have been talking about? >> yes. it's kroll redux for the 21st century. >> gore vidal is here at 84
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years of age he has witnessed two-thirds of the united states. he has written e as, plays and count less movie and television scripts. his newest book captures key moments and artifacts. it's called "gore vidal snapshots? history's glare ." i'm pleased to have limb back at this table. welcome. >> thank you, charlie. i'm welcomed to glare at your table anytime you would like. >> charlie: tell me about the motivation of putting this together? >> well, it wasn't mine. hi a friend that i lived with more more than 50 years, and i never collect pictures or anything else about myself. anybody else, but he did. suddenly he -- i have this great stack. ways in need of dusting. he said -- i said what are you going to do with it, it's just,
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i use it you know for kindling to light fires with. he said, well, it might be wort doing one day. it's a full record of your life. i was being photographed as a child, and i flew an airplane at ten, i was the most famous young boy in the country. so much so to show you the pettiness of the literary world which i thk you enjoy knowing about, from the outside. >> charlie: yes. >> at ten my father was roosevelt's director of air commerce. he ran civil of aviation for te president's administration. my father was always trying to get a plane that was so simply put together that any kid, any idiot really, could fly it. he got me out one sunday in
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washington. he was separated from my mother then, and said you know you want to be a movie star. i didn't want to be a movie star i wanted to be mickey rooney, literally. i didn't care about the rest of it. i liked that. i liked "mid summer night's dream." parents if you're trying to get children interested in reading shakespeare go out and get a copy of mgms "mid summer night's dream" with mickey roomy. i was en amered with shakespeare after it i saw i could do what mickey did with means backwards. i didn't do it but anyways. >> charlie: tell me about the pictures here. >> there i am 9 or 10 on my first trip to europe with a group of boys from the school i was attending in washington d.c. >> charlie: still exists and still there?
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>> still there, still there. and we ended up first of all for the summer we were near ver si perfecting our french. mine got worst and worst. then we went down to italy. we were on the last train out of italy before the border was sealed and the war had begun. so, my mother was in with these various secretaries of state and so on. hamilton fisher's grandson was with us. we were all congressional children. so we were given a great order. either kill them on the spot probably came out from one quarter. the other was, better get them out they maybe held for hostage. so we were sent up to the border at, between france and italy,
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and all of these guys in black shirts, chewing on garlic. it was very exciting. i thought where is this story going. i was use to movies. i was in the middle of a movie, nobody told me what the ending was. so, we all sat around devising a nice ending for this thing. well, we ended up in london in september 1939, meanwhile hitler had marched in poland. >> charlie: -- poland. >> and we marched into the house of commons just as neville chamberlain the prime minister entered the house. we watched him get out of downing street, as prime minister. i heard the strangest sounds from a crowd i had ever heard in
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my life. only about 50 people and 30 or 40 of us. as he came out he just had come back from germany where he had done badly with hitler. >> charlie: he got off the plane and waved the paper. >> -- i have here in my hand a sure peace -- >> charlie: -- peace at hand or something. >> the crowd new differently. they were brits who lived through world war i and were not happy with world war ii. >> charlie: including churchill. >> he wasn't in yet. he was about to be in, in ten minutes in power. the crowd didn't sigh or cheer. they moaned. (moaning) imagine a hundred people making that sound, it knocks you over.
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we went into the house the prime minister said, war is at hand. we have done all we could so on and so forth. a ship had just been sunk in the irish sea by the goer mans by the u boats. it was called the a see athenia. there was a sister ship called the an tonya. while the people were swimming away from the athenia they were loading precious, physical children. >> charlie: they were moving from the athenia to the boat you were on? >> no they were moving onto long boats. it was a little more movie than i wanted to see really. i didn't know how it was going to end. there was no popcorn. we were told the chocolate was limited on the ship going home.
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>> charlie: i'm going to show these quickly too. i want to get to currenty a. fares. this is you and your dad. >> my grandfather. >> charlie: blind. >> he brought oklahoma into the union in 1907. he was also at the opening up the road from here at the plaza hotel. >> charlie: oh, three blocks away. you read to him. >> i read to him all through my childhood which seemed to last forever. and he -- he had a library of some 14,000 books which he rented the house while he -- he had six years off when the voters rejected him in oklahoma. because he was opposed to world war i. he said there was no reason to fight that war which most americans came to believe that. we got nothing out of it. there were a lot of people killed on both sides which wasn't worthwhile. we weren't fighting alf hitler
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or bismark. in his retirement he built a beautiful house in rock k park. nearby is the great cemetery that surrounds the park. in the cemetery is the monument that henry adams made for his wife when she died. she was suicide. henry adams the great historian, fourth historian from the great president adams. and i -- we dug a hole. i'm at one end o of the hole. howard austin who collected the pictures was on the other send. so it comes to pass. >> charlie: you will be buried at rock k park. >> yes. there is a picture. >> charlie: next to howard.
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>> yes. >> charlie: you have planned your funer? >> silence. >> charlie: you haven't thought about the music and who will speak. >> no, no, no. >> charlie: do you think about death? >> no more than anything else does. which is quite a lot from what i can tell from tv ads. everyone is trying to get a pill to postpone that terrible event. >> charlie: but you haven't thought about this? >> yes, i know it's over. i think really about time. 84 is not, you know, the beginning of a new page. >> charlie: so, you're ready. >> i don't know if anybody is ready. if, if there were anything up ahead and i know they can't be. if they are watch out for me. i have a great deal of
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complaints to make about room service down here. [laughing] >> charlie: and scores to settle. >> no, i will let the scores be settled. most of my people i have disapproved of have gone to the other place. >> charlie: like whom. >> like, i don't know where he is now but i haven't seem him lately. >> charlie: you're such -- >> you know, charlie. you know, t naughty thing that is to say. [laughing] >> charlie: well, sometimes naughty comes, sometimes you can't resist. but what askin is interesting at this. the love of your life was not howard but mr. tremble who died very young in the war. >> we were brought up together long before i met howard. >> charlie: he was the love of your life. you have said, written about it -- >> it's like saying my brother was the love of my life.
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he was a gold en boy at school. the greatest athlete in their history. he was offered two contracts to be a professional baseball player, a pitcher. they sent him to duke. two baseball leagues. >> charlie: right. >> they would send him, then when the war was over he would go to work for which one who had paid for his schooling and jimmy. >> charlie: jimmy tremble. >> jimmy tremble he was from kentucky. his mother i knew well. his father i didn't. he disappeared in middle passage. he was on his own in school. we were in the dormitory. and we came to. we were both political kids. we were both out of the south. i think you will understand that, and there we are.
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>> and he had a career, right in front of him. a big one. highly paid. and i was already writing my first book. neither jimmy or i spent one minute thinking what are we going to. do life force was strong win us. >> charlie: you were going to be athlete. you were going to be a writer. >> yes. >> charlie: did you want to be president? >> of course i did. my grand father came close. cousin albert was elected president and was not able to serve. that's questionnairey tale in our family, and another cousin was elected, jimmy carter. >> charlie: the person you were closest too was jack kennedy. >> yes. i was happier being close to him than in the job. there was nothing about the presidency, once i saw it up
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close, is nothing you would want for yourself unless you were a mass owe kweuft. >> charlie: why do you say that. >> there are problems before you were whether o born and you areg as everything come to full boyle. >> charlie: now he's the president, obama is looking at afghanistan, still iraq, looking at healthcare, looking at a series of issues, global economic crisises that began way before he was in politics. >> yes. i was very eager for him to be elected. i was delighted when he ran. originally i was for hillary. she knew how to do it, having been there. experience does count every now and again. he's eloquent. he's very superior man. we don't get them quite often at that height in political life. >> charlie: you have said
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intellectually he's smarter than jack kennedy. >> more than any other since saoefpb son and maybe brighter than stevenson. one of the reasons people have difficulty, understand and remember i hope you're listening closely in the dark. remember one thing until obama, the average american, has never heard a you intelligent man as president of the united states. i make an exception for jack who was bright but not intelligent in the true sense that he knew a lot. obama knows a lot. but what he doesn't know since he's got into politics united states has been turned into an empire, into a wartime state constantly provoking wars with other country. i'm wartime president. i'm wartime president. ya, i'm wartime president.
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this crazy little mutt from somewhere in texas preening himself. he has no more business than being president, the sueme court explained one day why they picked him. it's on their head. >> charlie: back to president obama. the smartest president in a long, long time. he has a real chance to be successful despite the number of challenges he has because of intellect, because of? >> i was going to add experience. once we became "world empire and once we got a bunch of craze he's in the white house. "i'm wartime president, i'm wartime president." you can't be until congress declares the war, can you. nobody told him about that. never got that part in the constitution. it's 30 pages long. that's a lot of work for him to read. no, he was, they're all flying
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blind. and now obama comes along. the first thing he said after he was securely elected, first time around. well, he said, naturally the key to everything was going to be afghanistan. the old kingdom of bactria never subdued by alexander the great. that's where the real war is going to be. he's going to send 17,000 deploy these troops. now we have already wrecked the army. i was born in a cadet hospital in west point. i served three years in world war ii. was i a distinguished soldier? no i wasn't. i know about distinguished and
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extinguished. >> charlie: now we're talking abouing about iraq? >> iraq. i'm willing to fill-in any name you want to throw in there. >> charlie: korean war? i think so korea was a series of mistakes that should of never been made. i'm not a expert on the korean war. i know something about the vietnam. i certainly know the world more than i want to know about iraq. which is a bunch of gas and oil men from your section of the united states. [laughing] >> charlie: you never give up. >> i never give up, by god. [laughing] >> charlie: can we talk about culture today? what do you think of -- >> where is it hiding. >> charlie: exactly where is culture today. who is shaping our culture?
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>> i think whais shaping is failure. united states is a failed country. it's a failed state. it's a failed constitution. in fact the constitution has been taken away. >> charlie: wait a minute. you just sit here and said with great clarity how much you admire the president for his intelligence. >> i didn't finish my sentence. alright my sentence is: he takes for granite that war is our normal state. well, i'm not saying he likes it. i rather think being an intelligent man who has read a book or two doesn't like it. but he's up against a media that is going on about our boys are in harms way. we can't do anything to disturb them in harms way. all of this junk being fed to the people has made us a junky people. they don't know anything. don't you get the question i get
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all the time. who, do you read that? how do you know what is going on? i said well i had the luck to live fe or six years in europe. the newspaper are better about american news than ours. you never hear when you have general electric owning nbc. khafrplt of. charlie: they're selling the war. >> they're selling the war. you never get truth out of them. >> charlie: president gets criticism from some places because he has not yet sub described to this notion of american exceptionalism. i know you must be cheering about that. you never bought into the idea of american exceptionalism. >> i think it's exceptional in it's staou stupidity.
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every very great by the government people supported was just dumb, dumb. world war i i could go on for hours it will put me to sleep before it does your audience. it just everything you could stupid. >> charlie: turn it around for me in terms of what is great about america? >> well we were not all powerful and could not extend our rit much beyond home. that we didn't have the power to govern europe or the middle east or asia. >> charlie: our instinct would of been to govern rather than leave and come home after the war. >> never fall into the generous good nation that only does things for other peoples good. >> charlie: no, i don't fall into the trap that there is nothing a good nation can do or has done no matter the criticism you can find things about
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sacrifices and you can find good deeds in the long history of this nation. >> well in the long history of this nation or any nation will you find boys like jimmy trimble who never complained about being killed. will you find critics about me saying why we were i in the war. >> charlie: why were they in world war ii. we shouldn't of been in that war. >> you know how it started roosevelt trapped the japanese into attacking us. roosevelt was a political geneious. i'm not saying i like what he did. i certainly liked how he fought. every other leader in the world excluding the windbag church. boom, boom, boom. he never listened to his own speeches. you can't blame him either.
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>> charlie: you're not an admirer of churchill? >> of course not. i don't know anyone who knows about politics who does. i speak from the british point of sraoufplt let them judge you. i'm an outsider. >>harlie: what would of happened to hitler if there was no churchill. >> he might of done better. >> charlie: he might of done better. that's the point. >> no churchill was a blunder and so was hitler. leave hitler alone to blunder. >> charlie: blunder into failure. >> yes, he would of. the cia had a great plan to knock him off, and a lot of very interested people. you ought to get them on your program. >> charlie: the o.s.s.? >> o.s.s., o.s.a., cia. trying to shorthand it for the listeners. >> charlie: i need all the help i can. >> they tried to kill him off. finally it took the brings who
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were better in intelligence on the kopbtd then the of europe than we were. they said leave hitler alone. leave him alive. people said he's horrible he's killing masses of people. they said yes, it's his general ship that is destroying germany. we are taking a advantage of th. they were told to cool it. >> charlie: philosophically it would have been better if they killed hitler. >> i'm not a romantic and put things to one man. that man was so good we could of saved him. >> charlie: at man was so bad we should of killed him. >> it's the same same argument, two sides simultaneous. hihitler was a one letter. the attack on russia he was
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finished. >> charlie: napoleon too. >> they didn't ask nap about that. >> charlie: you call him nap. >> yes a great guy, >> charlie: i want to take this moment to sum up your own writing. you mentioned creation, a very good place to start. what are those you are most, i want to say proud but both looking at, admiring -- >> you're write certain books for the people. you know they don't know anything. you don't know what you think they ought to know. the schools won't teach it. why do you think i bother telling this story of life of the united states. >> charlie: washington d.c. would be one of those books? >> yes. creation. creation was the fifth century of what came along and there was
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no lord at work at that time. >> charlie: you have not changed since the first day i met you. not one. >> no, i had my incisors taken out. you know. >> charlie: they didn' take out your spirit. >> no, i gum it i don't bite it anymore. [laughing] >> charlie: oh. that candor either. so gore vidal great writer. >> i'm not fighting you. [laughing] >> crlie: well, comment on that. we look at gore vidal literary cari and say what? >> one of the few people who took the united states serious as a subject. i didn't spend my time writing about how i tried to get tenure
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that summer at an arbor and i lost it because my wife ran off with the oak pear girl or boy. >> charlie: you don't do that? >> i don't do that. so many other people are willing to fill that gap. i love to know about the private lives of people. >> charlie: where would you but breckenridge? >> it's meg. >>anthony: it's time for people to think about it as we know. to experience it. >> charlie: did you once say that two things should you always do if you're asked go on television and have sex? >> i said that to diane swayer. >> charlie: right. >> the camera man opposite us ran into a wall when he heard that. there was a crash. [laughing] >> she jumped back out of her chair. i said well, maybe i better go
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now. she said no, no, no. then i got a you are letter from her at the end of the day. she said, you certainly brightened my day. >> charlie: at the end. what's the first line of the obituary. >> oh, no. it has come to pass. [laughing] >> charlie: and the second line is: gore vidal novelist or gore vidal writer? >> gore vidal had a sharp eye and it's still on you. [laughing] >> charlie: it's, as i have said many times before, a pleasure to see you always. a very handsome young man here. there you go. always good. thank you. good health, long life. the book is called "gore vidal snapshots in history's glare" you will see lots of history
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pictures with president kennedy and many, many other people. thank you for joining us. see you next time. captioning sponsored by rose communications captioned by media access group at wgbh
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